Danzig Or War Hoi4

Hello everyone! Today we are going to be talking about National Unity, or rather the fact that it no longer existsNational UnityNational Unity first made its appearance in Hearts of Iron III, basically as a mechanic to make France surrender at an appropriate time (when Paris fell essentially).

1. Hoi4 Rush Danzig Or War
2. Hoi4 Bypass Danzig Or War

1. The Road to 56 Uploaded Published December 18, 2016 Updated May 9, 2019 If you liked this item, please rate it up on Steam Workshop page.
2. War was inevitable. The Danzig issue was just a pretext for Hitler, he wanted to crush Poland once and for all. If Danzig and the corridor was all he wanted, he would have had them in a second 'Munich'. Mussolini was busy trying to organize this when the German invasion started.

Created as a mandate of the (largely useless) League of Nations following the end of the Great War, it was basically controlled by Poland, controlling it’s economy and having military presence there. Danzig was never really independent and as Polish (administratively) as cities like Lodz and Lwow were.

It was largely moved over to HOI4 unchanged. While it does accomplish what we wanted it's also a very restrictive currency to work with design wise. A player who is winning doesn't really care what their NU is, making a lot of focus choices meaningless in those instances (or almost, there is always that time your country gets blanketed in nukes and someone dropping paras on one of your big cities seals the deal in multiplayer). We wanted to model different nations better and make sure we could do more interesting focuses and events where picking a loss of NU wasn't always the better choice compared to giving up, say, political power.

So what's the answer?Stability and War SupportThese are two new values shown in the topbar that replace National Unity. Stability models the people's unity and support for the current government. War Support on the other hand represent the people’s support of war and of fully committing to fighting that war.

As an example Britain in 1936 would be a pretty stable nation, but with very low war support. A nation like France would be much more unstable and with equally low war support, while Japan would have high war support and also high stability (mostly due to the emperor’s influence).Stability average is 50% and nations with higher stability than that gain bonuses to industry, political power and consumer goods. Once you drop below 50% there are penalties instead as well as lowering your surrender limit (although nothing as extreme as how NU affected things). Strong party support helps increase stability, but being in a war - no matter how well supported - is going to lower your stability.

Stability also works to protect against coups against your nation as well.War Support has several passive effects and also limits several of the laws. You can’t switch to full War Economy without enough war support for example.Note that in the picture below France is getting +30% war support because they have been attacked by Germany. An offensive war on the other hand for Germany actually hurts their war support.

This comes with some interesting balancing effects:. Democracies challenging Germany early over Rhineland etc would put themselves as attackers, forcing them to fight hindered by the war support penalty. Fascist or aggressive nations will generally have more initial war support but are likely to be surpassed by democracies in a defensive war when it comes to war support. Defensive nations will be able to ramp up army sizes faster due to mobilization speed while attackers need to play a bit more carefully.

The return of “national pride” from HOI3 in the form of combat bonuses on core territory will help here too.Speaking of mobilization speed, you no longer get a chunk of manpower instantly when enacting conscription laws or other changes to recruitable manpower. Instead how quickly the manpower is made available by the law change is controlled by your mobilization speed. The higher the war support the faster new manpower trickles in.The air war also affects things as successful enemy bombing (or nuking) will lower War Support. Shooting down enemy bombers will offset this somewhat, as people are seeing you fight back against the enemy.Here is an example on what can happen in a nation with low war support and low stability in a war. The severity of these particular options depends on exactly how low your stability/war support are. Here it's pretty bad.For Germany a good way of raising war support is to pull off its diplomatic expansions without being opposed:War support is also affected by how your allies manage. If a major ally surrenders it will lower your war support, so make sure to keep your friends in the war.

On the flip side successfully capitulating major enemies increases your war support.There are also some new ways to affect War Support and Stability outside events, ministers and national focuses that we aren't ready to show off yetSee you again next week!

The germans would have attacked anyway. Hitler would never allow Russia to be communist it was either Russia ruled by germany or not at all. I think the allies would be quite upset as they already knew Hitler canot be trusted and was getting more than he bargained for when he invaded the rest of czechoslovakia.Hitler did not need to attack Poland to get to Russia.

Hitler did have to go through her but he planned to make her a satellite nation. An acquiescent Polish government would allow German troops to move through their territory on their way to Russia. I will have to look it up, but I believe the Poles did make an 11th hour offer to Hitler to do just that. They realized that Hitler was not going to back down, even with the threat of war with Britain and France.What they did not bargain for was that Hitler was spoiling for a fight and the offer was ignored in favour of the destruction of the Polish state.What Germany would do depends on when the Poles decided to give up the city.Hitler's original plan was to make Poland a satellite nation dependant on Germany. Hitler thought that Poland was drifting into the German orbit and was even more convinced of this by her cooperation during the Czech crisis.

After the crisis the Poles made an attempt to improve her relations with Russia this was because she wanted to maintain a balance between Russia and Germany. Hitler did not like this because he did not want her to take an indepent line. So he asked for the return of Danzig. Danzig was the only port city the Poles had and depended on the city for trade. Hitler promised to allow the Poles to use the city but the Poles did not beleive him. Hitler thought that by taking Danzig and controlling Poland's economic life line he would be able to keep the Poles in line as he could threaten whenever they deviated from his wishes to cut Polish rights to the city. For months talks for the city's return dragged on until after Hitler broke the Munich pact the western powers became interested in Poland's fate.

Britain and France gave, on March 31st, guarantees to Poland to protect he from Germany. This created a new situation as far as Hitler was concerned. Hitler beleived that the western powers planned to stop him from expanding eastward and so he decided he was going to have to move west to crush France and Britain and then move east. Poland was to be allied with Germany and serve as a barrier between Germany and Russia.

Hitler now feared that if he turned west then regardless of what happened to Danzig the Poles would attack him as they now knew that he meant to end their independance. Hitler thus became determined to go war with Poland but this posed two problems - onw with Britain and France and one with Russia.

With no barrier between them Hitler the Russians might attack when he moved west. To neutralize her he signed the non agression pact with Stalin and hoped he could use this to isolate the west. As far as Poland was concerned Hitler had decided upon war.

The only way the Poles could have avoided war was to not only give Hitler Danzig but to place themselves under German influence. Since the Poles did want to do this the only option was war. Now you wrote. If Poland would cede Danzig to the germans 1939, at least I think the wises thing to do would be to back down. Wait with the assault and be happy with danzig, bohemia, sudeten, austria and the demilitarized zone. Wait and build up the army.

The allies wouldn't risk a war if the poles agreed with ceding danzig. If Hitler could be patient enogh not to start a war until 1942 then the Wehrmacht would be ready and might have smashed the allies and the soviets. The french economy was weak, the brittish economy was faltering only the soviets would have been better equiped to face the german onslaught. But I still belive in german victory in -42. Hitler could simply use Poland as a secured zone against U.S.S.R.But wheter Hitler would be patient enough or just rush into his doom, that I cannot tell./Regards Panther. Many people lament that Hitler should have been more patient but it is difficult to tell what would have happened. By 1938 Hitler felt that although Germany was not yet fully armed she had managed to gain an edge over the western powers.

He beleived that the longer the he waited the greater the chances they could regain the lead. Besides military there were also personal reasons for acting quickly. Hitler felt he was growing old that he was going to die soon and that he couldn't trust his successor whoever he might be to have the same resolve and will power as he. So Hitler thought he should act quickly and 'get the war over with' while he was in his prime. Although the timing of the war was certainly early even by Hitler's standards most agree that had things gone a little differently Hitler still could have won. Poland could not GIVE Danzig to ANYONE.Danzig was an independent city run by the League of Nations. The people of Danzig were OVERWHELMINGLY interested in rejoining East Prussia, and there were proposals of a plebiscite.

This was rejected because it was FORBIDDEN for Danzig to re-join Germany, just as it had been FORBIDDEN that Austria join a German union. In spite of talk of 'rights of self-determination', Danzig had been designated a Free City, and it was going to STAY a Free City. If Poland stopped OBJECTING, then the League probably would have accepted a plebiscite.My understanding is that rather than being on the verge of compromise, the Poles simply didn't believe that the Germans were on the edge of war and saw no need that weekend to make any special efforts to even CONTACT Berlin about the last German demands. I think that the English desperately tried to convince the Poles that this was the real deal, and the Poles didn't believe them.I also understand that part of the problem was that the Germans were too smart militarily to benefit the diplomats. The Poles knew that the Germans could not attack without conducting a General Mobilization, which the Germans had NOT done. What the Germans HAD done was call up the Reservists for annual training in August and never send them HOME.

So the Germans had conducted a SECRET mobilization, and the Polish diplomats hadn't caught on.But the ENTIRE Polish position was that Czechoslovakia had been destroyed because they NEGOTIATED, and so there was NOTHING to negotiate. The Danzig Corridor was one of the most heavily developed regions of Poland. To give it away would have crippled the country, which was already in desperate financial straits.Read 'Orphans of Versailles', which explains the unfortunate position of ethnic Germans in Poland between 1918 and 1939. I will have to look it up, but I believe the Poles did make an 11th hour offer to Hitler to do just that. They realized that Hitler was not going to back down, even with the threat of war with Britain and France.What they did not bargain for was that Hitler was spoiling for a fight and the offer was ignored in favour of the destruction of the Polish state.What Germany would do depends on when the Poles decided to give up the city.Hitler's original plan was to make Poland a satellite nation dependant on Germany.

Hitler thought that Poland was drifting into the German orbit and was even more convinced of this by her cooperation during the Czech crisis. After the crisis the Poles made an attempt to improve her relations with Russia this was because she wanted to maintain a balance between Russia and Germany.

Hitler did not like this because he did not want her to take an indepent line. So he asked for the return of Danzig. Danzig was the only port city the Poles had and depended on the city for trade. Hitler promised to allow the Poles to use the city but the Poles did not beleive him. Hitler thought that by taking Danzig and controlling Poland's economic life line he would be able to keep the Poles in line as he could threaten whenever they deviated from his wishes to cut Polish rights to the city.

For months talks for the city's return dragged on until after Hitler broke the Munich pact the western powers became interested in Poland's fate. Britain and France gave, on March 31st, guarantees to Poland to protect he from Germany. This created a new situation as far as Hitler was concerned. Hitler beleived that the western powers planned to stop him from expanding eastward and so he decided he was going to have to move west to crush France and Britain and then move east. Poland was to be allied with Germany and serve as a barrier between Germany and Russia.

Hitler now feared that if he turned west then regardless of what happened to Danzig the Poles would attack him as they now knew that he meant to end their independance. Hitler thus became determined to go war with Poland but this posed two problems - onw with Britain and France and one with Russia. With no barrier between them Hitler the Russians might attack when he moved west. To neutralize her he signed the non agression pact with Stalin and hoped he could use this to isolate the west. As far as Poland was concerned Hitler had decided upon war. The only way the Poles could have avoided war was to not only give Hitler Danzig but to place themselves under German influence. Since the Poles did want to do this the only option was war.

Now you wrote. I believe the Poles did make an 11th hour offer to Hitler to do just that.The Poles never intended to give up Danzig. The offer they made was to resume negotians (spelling?) which Hitler was not interested because he didn't really care about Danzig. What he cared about was having a subservient Polish government that would allow Germany to exploit her economy, not attack her and keep Russia away when Germany turned west.You're wrong. Hitler wanted to destroy Poland and he thought GB and France would never undertake action against this.

Hoi4 Rush Danzig Or War

By unleashing the attack he hoped he would destroy any authority GB and France had left after Munich. He was totally surprised by the ultimatum the two countries gave him after Sept 1. But even then, he didn't want war with the West. He still hoped to sign some sort of alliance with Britain in the future and war with France would be too dangerous for the still growing Wehrmacht.

Hitler was convinced that after he defeated Poland quickly, some arrangement could be made with France and GB. But to his surprise, they didn't want peace. At that point he secured the East and targeted the West.I agree, Poland would never give up Danzig. The proof for that is that Poland was clearly outnumbered by Germany, but still maintained a widespread defense line, even reaching the Danzig Strip. Apparently, they wanted to risk a lot to keep the city theirs.I also agree, that it wasn't about Danzig for Hitler. Hitler once said 'Always demand so much, that the other can't agree with it.

Hitler didn't want Danzig, he wanted to destroy the independant Polish state. If the Polish had agree with Danzig, he would only demand more (I.E the whole strip, the lost territory in the Western provinces). You're wrong. Hitler wanted to destroy Poland and he thought GB and France would never undertake action against this. By unleashing the attack he hoped he would destroy any authority GB and France had left after Munich.

He was totally surprised by the ultimatum the two countries gave him after Sept 1.Most of your post is correct but Hitler was not surprised when the west declared war. Look at Hitler's speech below. Notice the date - May 23, 1939, months before the attack on Poland.(Note:You don't have to read all of it just the parts in bold.).

But even then, he didn't want war with the West. He still hoped to sign some sort of alliance with Britain in the future and war with France would be too dangerous for the still growing Wehrmacht. Hitler was convinced that after he defeated Poland quickly, some arrangement could be made with France and GB. But to his surprise, they didn't want peace. At that point he secured the East and targeted the West.An alliance with Britain was one of Hitler's aims but the fact is Hitler grudgingly began to accept that an alliance might not be possible.

As far as back as 1937 Hitler knew the west might try to stop him from expanding east. Did you ever hear of plan Z?

Hoi4 Bypass Danzig Or War

It was a program created in the fall of 1938 designed to build a massive navy. Although the outbreak of war changed these plans the only reason Hitler would want a large navy would be to challenge British sea power, which means he was thinking there might eventually be conflict between them.